The Tease ([info]gentlemaitresse) wrote,
@ 2004-03-07 12:26:00
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From praxeology.net
God So Loved the World that He Did What?

Suppose I confront you, with a gun in one hand and a hammer in the other. I point the gun at you, and I tell you sadly, "I have to shoot you unless I bang myself on the head with this hammer. It’s the rule."

"Whose rule is this?" you ask as you edge toward the exit.

"It’s my rule," I explain. "I made this rule all by myself. But don’t worry; I’m not going to shoot you, because I love you."

And then I bang myself on the head, really hard, with the hammer.

You start to run away, but I tackle you. "Look at me!" I yell. "I’m bleeding! My skull is cracked!! Look at the suffering I’ve put myself through for your sake!!! You really owe me now. You’ll be an ungrateful wretch unless you start doing exactly what I say."

Such a demand would obviously make no sense. But how is the predominant Christian interpretation of the crucifixion of Jesus any different?

Mainstream Christians hold that Jesus sacrificed himself on the cross to save us from hell. But they also maintain that Jesus is God incarnate. So who made the rule that we would all be damned to hell unless God got himself nailed to a cross? God did.

If this were true, wouldn’t it make Jesus’ "sacrifice" meaningless?

This bizarre doctrine, which casts God in the role of a sado-masochistic psycho, is believed by millions of people, and is the central theme of that movie everyone’s talking about. Yet it’s nowhere to be found in the Bible. (Not that the doctrine would be worthy of belief if it were - but anyway it’s not.)

Strange planet, eh?

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[info]drewfer
2004-03-07 10:49 am UTC (link)
I'm a bit confused, what doctrine is not found in the bible?

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[info]astralshade
2004-03-07 03:10 pm UTC (link)
I suppose the doctrine that we were all doomed to a fiery, eternal torment if Jesus hadn't come along and died for us.

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[info]drewfer
2004-03-07 06:14 pm UTC (link)
Isn't that doctrine precisely what the new testament is about?

I agree with the author's general notions but I don't know where he gets the idea of that doctrine not being present in the bible.

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[info]habibekindheart
2004-03-07 11:31 am UTC (link)
/chuckle actually I've believed that way (about the whole jesus thing) for years ;) I can't stand the way christians shove him on me as some sort of contractual obligation.

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[info]polyanarch
2004-03-07 11:48 am UTC (link)
It has worked so far to enslave whole populations. Seems to work so far. Not on me though...

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amayos
2004-03-07 12:56 pm UTC (link)
Well written. Excellent organization of thoughts. You put your finger directly upon the number one (in my opinion) flaw in the underpinning faith of Christian belief. I agree 100%!

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[info]gentlemaitresse
2004-03-07 02:48 pm UTC (link)
I wish I'd written it. I put the link above.

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amayos
2004-03-07 02:50 pm UTC (link)
Doh!

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[info]adoka
2004-03-07 05:28 pm UTC (link)
I always thought that Jehovah was a sociopath, a humorless thug with devoted minion let loose upon fellow citizens. The whole sacrice of his "only begotten son", in my opinion, is a cosmic confidence game. My whole take was he incarnated, knew who he was, suffered and died. Ok, how is that not like deity playing a divine sort of Everquest game? Where is the sacrafice? Why set the game up for most of your creation, whom you supposedly love, to suffer damnation for not believing the set-up as told to them by his shills. Game over, baby. Peddle that merchandise down the street or we call the bunco squad.

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[info]drewfer
2004-03-07 05:47 pm UTC (link)
Very well said.

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[info]polyanarch
2004-03-07 08:30 pm UTC (link)
EverQuest is my downfall. Why did you have to bring it up???

Blech!

Heh :)

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[info]odinsbaer
2004-03-08 06:51 am UTC (link)
Wow it does sum up a lot of which i had thought about many doctrines. the other is what i would call the sheep mentality which is put throughout the bible but never said directly. "the lord is my shepard i shall not stray" In other words do what i say not what i do and never think for yourself without talking to me about it first. sad i say sad which is why i have long held this in my mind
tis better to be the predator of the sheep than the supper for the shepard


yum lambchops
Baer

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[info]gentlemaitresse
2004-03-09 07:53 am UTC (link)
The sheep mentality *is* said directly. In several places, even.

And the correct quote is, "The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not *want*." It then goes on to illustrate how much the shepherd cares for his sheep.

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[info]maitressestoy
2004-03-08 07:46 am UTC (link)
"You start to run away, but I tackle you. "Look at me!" I yell. "I’m bleeding! My skull is cracked!! Look at the suffering I’ve put myself through for your sake!!! You really owe me now. You’ll be an ungrateful wretch unless you start doing exactly what I say.""

I don't believe God ever tackled me and told me I had to do what he said. It would be better if a stranger saw him do this, tackled the guy and said all that.

"So who made the rule that we would all be damned to hell unless God got himself nailed to a cross? God did."

I don't think people were damned to hell before He died on the cross. Maybe God got tired of the cute little lamb being laid open infront of him at the alter.

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[info]gentlemaitresse
2004-03-09 08:00 am UTC (link)
No, God doesn't tackle people, but he does threaten them with eternal damnation in fire and brimstone with weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth.

Do you think that everyone who died prior to Jesus' death on the cross went to heaven? I've never heard that before.


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not quite to the point...
(Anonymous)
2004-03-09 09:09 am UTC (link)
Interesting comments but they are not quite accurate.
#1 - We are not saved from Hell - there is no Hell in the Bible (this is a social construction from the Catholics resulting from their belief in Purgatory).
#2 - Christians (most and mainstream, not counting cults or sects) belive that Jesus died as an act of sacrafice to "provide a (voluntary) vehicle (him) for salvation".
#3 - There is no requirement to accept same (from #2 above), and no where in the bible do any letters, scriptures, written by the authors or comments attributed to Jesus claim ever prove an alternative to salvation (see #1 above).
#4 - God is not sado-masochistic, people are and so can their interpretation be.
I am not a "bible thumper" and not overly religious as such, but I do have an education in the bible (went to Catholic university (I am not catholic)) - but most of your observations are heresay and hastily constructed generalizations. I might recommend a more thorough research in the future. Sorry, I tried to keep it short.
Janner
P.S. Found my way here from your profile in the "Tally" list.
P.S.S. My email is jannerholliday@earthlink.net if you would like to know - I always welcome interesting conversation.
#4 - Sacrafice is never meaningless, only misunderstood by some one.

The most inaccurate statement is the requirement for

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Re: not quite to the point...
[info]gentlemaitresse
2004-03-09 11:42 am UTC (link)
there is no Hell in the Bible

I think that's why the author said this isn't in the bible.

Christians (most and mainstream, not counting cults or sects) belive that Jesus died as an act of sacrafice to "provide a (voluntary) vehicle (him) for salvation".

Salvation from what?

There is no requirement to accept same

Except that if we don't we are doomed to eternal damnation.


Welcome to my journal. :-)


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