The Tease ([info]gentlemaitresse) wrote,
@ 2004-03-08 19:19:00
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Why do men act like sex is a skill? They talk about being good at it. That's odd. What makes one good at sex is communication, IMHO.

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[info]butterflysneeze
2004-03-08 04:24 pm UTC (link)
Communication is part of it.

Stamina.

Knowing where a clitoris is.

Knowing how to read your partner's reactions.

There are certainly techniques which may come in handy...you can think of that as being skill-based.

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[info]gentlemaitresse
2004-03-08 04:40 pm UTC (link)
Stamina? Are you serious? That never even occured to me. I suppose I figure I'll be on top until I'm tired, and then he'll be on top for a while. No big deal.

I can *teach* someone where a clitoris is, but it doesn't make a bit of difference if they think they are "good" because they were able to get their last girlfriend to orgasm regularly. That doesn't mean the same "technique" will work with me!

Knowing your partner's reactions is part of communication, IMHO. I certainly didn't mean only verbal communication. I'm very communicative with squirms and moans and sighs, not to mention pulling away or moving your hand or whatever if I want you to do something differently.

Please expand on these "techniques which may come in handy". Seriously. Whenever a guy says he's good at something sexual I get the impression that he's not going to be listening or paying enough attention to what *I* want. He already thinks he's good.

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cruelly_kind
2004-03-08 07:17 pm UTC (link)
Stamina and strength both can be profoundly useful. I've been meaning to post about that for a while, so watch my journal for TMI. *grins*

"Whenever a guy says he's good at something sexual I get the impression that he's not going to be listening or paying enough attention to what *I* want. He already thinks he's good."

Hmmm... now I'm wondering: do people who are skilled at the various arts of sex go around babbling about how skilled they are? Do they need to?

There are skills, and there are skills. It's entirely possible to relay too much on purely mechanical skills -- I've run into women who brag about giving great blow jobs who have no sense of paying attention to my reactions and adjusting what they're doing to please me. That's just one example, but it's exactly the kind of thing you're talking about.

"I'm very communicative with squirms and moans and sighs, not to mention pulling away or moving your hand or whatever if I want you to do something differently."

And paying attention to those signs is a major skill, the lack of which pretty much negates any other skill the person may have.

To put it another way: There is no substitute for truly caring for the person you're making love with, but when you're truly cared for by someone who has read (and made corrections to) the Kama Sutra, things are even better!

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[info]gentlemaitresse
2004-03-09 05:11 am UTC (link)
do people who are skilled at the various arts of sex go around babbling about how skilled they are

I never give them the opportunity to prove themselves right because I can't stand the arrogant attitude, but a lot of men tell me how good they are at oral sex, or even sex in general. Personal ads are rife with "very oral", and men often tell me "you *will* be satisfied" or "you won't regret it".

brag about giving great blow jobs who have no sense of paying attention to my reactions and adjusting what they're doing to please me

Exactly. And don't you think it would be better if they knew you a little bit?

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cruelly_kind
2004-03-09 05:28 am UTC (link)
"Personal ads are rife with "very oral", and men often tell me "you *will* be satisfied" or "you won't regret it"."

Now that's just flat stupid. Hell, even when I'm making a first date, I tend to just say something like, "Let's have coffee and see what happens."


"Exactly. And don't you think it would be better if they knew you a little bit?"

Of course. I was just trying to bring some balance in -- the fact that there are morons who overvalue their so-called skills doesn't negate the value of skill per se.

An example completely removed from sex: I am a great cook. Really. Ex-professional. I am skilled at several styles of cuisine. But there's no guarantee that any given person is going to like my cooking, and it would be arrogant as hell[1] for me to assume that everyone is going to like whatever brilliant, prizewinning creation I come up with. OTOH, I consider the pinnacle of the culnary art to be creating a meal for someone I know very well and care for, carefully creating a dining experience just for them -- and being able to do that requires both a knowledge of that person's likes AND the skill that I've accumulated.

[1] Being arrogant as hell is an occupational hazard of professional chefs anyway.

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[info]gentlemaitresse
2004-03-09 05:47 am UTC (link)
Even after meeting for coffee or whatever, I still want to get to know a guy first. I want to discover that he's honest and trustworthy. I want to be friends. I know that guys think that's like the death knell if a woman says she wants to be friends, but my best lovers have always been friends.

I loved your comparison to cooking. I just can't see any particular sexual skills that are necessary to good sex. I'd be willing to have sex with a virgin if we clicked. I believe I could teach him the basic anatomy and stuff as long as the communication skills were there. And sometimes virgins really make me hot.



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[info]polyanarch
2004-03-08 04:29 pm UTC (link)
I'm not sure exactly if sex is a 'skill' but I know from experience that some people are BAD at it. Communication is a key but if one is unwilling to walk though the door of solicitude then having the key to unlock it is meaningless. Both are necessary to be a good lover.

Decent hand-eye coordination, muscular control, physical strength and stamina are not going to hurt any either...

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[info]gentlemaitresse
2004-03-08 04:43 pm UTC (link)
Read my reply to [info]butterflysneeze above and let me know what you think. ;-)

And IMHO the only people who are bad at sex are those who are so egotistical they already think they are "good lovers", or those who are so closed minded they get weirded out by sex in one way or another.

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[info]polyanarch
2004-03-08 04:50 pm UTC (link)
I agree. Some bad lovers are just clueless and unable to read their partners signals. Others just don't give a damn if they bring pleasure at all and are just in it for themselves. Others are merely clumsy and all thumbs. Some just don't have any enthusiasm for the activity at all and that really sucks the most.

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[info]daraknor
2004-03-08 05:05 pm UTC (link)
Agreed. I like the bonding experience, the growing closer.

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[info]gentlemaitresse
2004-03-08 06:03 pm UTC (link)
Yes, and the discovery. Finding all those secret things that make the person squirm or whimper or gasp.

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[info]byong
2004-03-08 05:27 pm UTC (link)
Communication IS a skill

Cassandra

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[info]gentlemaitresse
2004-03-08 06:06 pm UTC (link)
True, but then I think someone would say they have communication skills, rather than saying they are good at sex.

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[info]voltbang
2004-03-08 08:29 pm UTC (link)
I was going to say that. In fact, I was going to capitalize it the same way. No fair.

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sex IS a skill
[info]ldtalon
2004-03-08 05:28 pm UTC (link)
many of the younger males do not understand this. they hope their rock hard bodies will cover for thier in-attentiveness to sexual details. i dont care if vaginal intercourse is a part of a relationship. i prefer to get closer to the woman using my taste nose and eyes to see how she is reacting to my ministrations. imho, the cock is used for procreation and for many other pleasures a woman may have ... sexual skills being on the very bottom of those pleasures. for sex, the cock cums way too fast and goes soft at the wrong time.

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Re: sex IS a skill
[info]gentlemaitresse
2004-03-08 06:12 pm UTC (link)
Well, I disagree with it being a skill. It's more like... it's like you just relate to the other person and get in tune with them. You adjust what you're doing based on their reactions. You can't just learn "how to do it" and think you're going to be great with everyone. That's why guys who brag about being "good at sex" or "very oral" (I HATE that phrase) irritate me to no end. Just because you were good with the last woman you were with is no guarantee that you and I would be good together.

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[info]mouser
2004-03-08 05:57 pm UTC (link)
Communication is a skill. Concentration (being COMPLETELY in the moment) is a skill. Mostly it's a skill that needs to be practiced.

Anyone can be average at sex. Some can be very bad, either by "I'm so great" to "I'm in a rush" to "I'm just happy to get a mercy hump!" to just being clumsy. Being GOOD takes thought and care and attention. That's where the skill comes in. Just having parts doesn't make one adequate.

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[info]gentlemaitresse
2004-03-08 06:18 pm UTC (link)
IMHO, thought and care and attention require that you really care about the other person. (That's why a relationship that is *purely* sexual holds no interest for me.) And even then someone that was really good with his last partner might not necessarily be so good with you.

It just bugs me when guys say stuff like, "You won't be disappointed. I know what I'm doing."



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[info]mouser
2004-03-08 07:55 pm UTC (link)
Ah, but you weren't talking about a :relationship: you were talking about SEX!

True enough that thought and care are multipliers, but if the person in question bites in the WRONG spot, or just lies there, the base number is pretty low. Love makes up for a lot, but there ARE people I love I don't want to have sex with. Likewise the reverse. (Yea, kind of shallow. Bad on me.) My point is, there ARE skills involved, whether they are knowlege of where to lick, to where to hit with a flogger, to which changing room door ISN'T being watched by a security camera.

There are skills involved. It's just that natural talent and emotional connection count for a lot too.


Oh, and "I don't know what I'm doing. Is it ok if I practice on you? Repeatedly?"

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[info]gentlemaitresse
2004-03-09 05:31 am UTC (link)
I think I'm coming to the conclusion more and more that for sex to be good for me there has to be some sort of relationship. There has to be an enjoyment of each others' company, and a thrill of getting to know each other better. As I said in response to someone else, I enjoy finding what makes someone whimper, moan, or squirm.

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cruelly_kind
2004-03-08 07:38 pm UTC (link)
Why do women generalise? *grins*

I do get the impression that some men (and some women, as I noted in another reply) overemphasise a small subset of the skills involved in good sex. My theory is that they are idiots.

I don't think there's one single thing that makes one "good at sex". Communication (aka "paying attention") is definitely number one, but there are lots of things that contribute. Some knowledge of anatomy is nice; a creative imagination is very important, and of course, that imagination needs to make use of the communication and the anatomy knowledge. And I'm sure different things are important to different people.

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trophoblast
2004-03-08 09:12 pm UTC (link)
That bothers me too. That sex is viewed as a "performance." This simply causes people to develop complexes about "not being good enough in bed," I think. I think you're absolutely right about communication... someone can be experienced but if they don't know what their partner wants all the experience in the world will come to naught.

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[info]gentlemaitresse
2004-03-09 05:39 am UTC (link)
Soon after I lost my virginity (at *thirteen*) a couple of different guys said I wasn't "good in bed". How are you supposed to be "good" when 1. the guy just hops on and hops off and you figure that's all there is to it, 2. you're really nervous and possibly in pain, too, and 3. you're worried he's going to think you're no good at it (I'd heard how guys talk).

Yeah, it was stupid of me to do it when I wasn't really enjoying it. But I was thirteen, after all. I did it for the wrong reasons and developed a bit of a complex for a couple of years. I got over it, though. ;-)

How would it have been better? If the guy had communicated, if he'd gone slowly, and if he'd cared about what I was feeling. I can't think of a particular *sexual* skill that would have really made much difference.


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[info]mispandora
2004-03-08 11:27 pm UTC (link)
I think of sex as a skill. Making love is far more deep and involved. I can call a fuckbuddy and we barely talk at all -- he's on the call "list" because I think he has talent and skills.

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[info]gentlemaitresse
2004-03-09 05:41 am UTC (link)
I've never had a fuckbuddy. I've never noticed that a man had any more *skill* than another, really. Maybe I'm just not cut out for casual sex because I can't imagine any skill that could replace the emotional thrill for me.

I honestly don't intend to sound ignorant, but tell me what skills you mean, please.

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[info]mispandora
2004-03-09 06:08 am UTC (link)
OK...Skills. Bear with me, I'm just coming home from a 12 hour night shift and really should be hitting the bed myself (alone!)
-- Pacing.
-- Smarts to get me off a few times before he lets loose (he doesn't want a head injury or a kick in the balls)
-- Knowing a pussy and coming prepared with a road map.
-- Knowing how to handle my genital piercings.
-- Expert use of tongue and teeth (this can result in devastating injuries if they do NOT have skills, on his part and on mine.)
-- How to use his dick, and the rest of him, to give me the best pleasure.
Along with that comes creativity, ingenuity and good communication.

I don't consider that I have "casual sex encounters" as these are friends with benefits. They remain first and foremost friends, and we have encounters that are beyond the realm of "just having sex."

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[info]gentlemaitresse
2004-03-09 08:33 am UTC (link)
This is great. Thanks. Your comment about "casual sexual encounters" vs. "friends with benefits" really makes me think. I don't think I'd be too comfortable with "friends with benefits" either, but now I'll have to consider why I feel that way.

I'd like to know more about what you called "pacing". As for him getting me off first, well since I'm generally the one in control of all that it's not a problem. Knowing a pussy also isn't a priority to me. I don't mind teaching a guy a few things. For one thing, I get the distinct impression that mine is a bit different than average anyway, so it's good if he doesn't come with any preconceptions about where and what will feel good to me. I don't like teeth used on me, and I have no piercings, so those aren't considerations for me. And I don't really expect nor need a guy to use his dick to give me pleasure. If I want pleasure from it *I* use *it*.

Thanks for the insight! :-)

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[info]mispandora
2004-03-09 08:49 pm UTC (link)
I wasn't addressing BDSM or D/s at all. I'm strictly talking about sex. In the context of a D/s scenario, in the very rarest of occasions that it might happen, I absolutely control everything that happens, and his skill really matters not. Perhaps I didn't grasp the context of your original posting.

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[info]gentlemaitresse
2004-03-09 09:04 pm UTC (link)
Well, here's where we differ. Sex is always D/s for me. It always has been, since before I knew the name for it. That's the only way I've ever enjoyed it.

So when *I* talk about sex, I'm always talking about D/s, and I have a bad habit of forgetting that other people (even those into D/s) aren't necessarily talking about anything but *sex*.

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[info]mispandora
2004-03-09 09:13 pm UTC (link)
Ahhhh, that makes sense. Sex is sex. I can have and enjoy vanilla sex. Always have, always will.

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[info]neoeddiebear
2004-03-09 12:21 am UTC (link)
I would go as far as to call it a skill. More like an art. With knowledge of your subject matter and plenty of patractice you can preform at a masterful level and create a metaphorical masterpiece.

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chug chug chug
[info]avalon_ski_69
2004-03-09 04:03 am UTC (link)
You are correct. It's being in tune to your partner. Gauge what your doing to your parnters reactions. Soft and sensual or Rough and passionate...........or wahtever. We are all different and woods do vary from day to day. It's a little more involved than yelling "all aboard" and chug chug chug lets go for a ride.

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